I need help in trying to decide want I really need to run on the street.
It must be fool proof because my wife will drive it.
pump?
injectors?
arc or safc or ?
I have installed Dr 500's,bc,no cats,dnp,k&n,boost & air fuel gauges, rps flywheel and 6puc clutch and one loud bov for my sons high school buddies.
I can run 13 pounds of boost and lite the last two green lites on the narrow band af gauge. And anything over 14# as we all know is way to lean.
91 RT TT complete 120k done (oil pump,water pump,timing belt ,ect)

I would say all of the above. You will need the fuel controller for the injectors.I would say a minimum of upgrading the pump. You should also look into getting a data logger.

_________________
'94 vr4- Now with extra slowness

bigger turbo lol

_________________
In the words of my best friend.....
So heres what happened.....

If you want more than BPU your going to need all of what you have listed.

How much more grunt do you want? If you can tune well a 500 hp turbo car can be as docile as a 150 hp civic until you stand on the gas pedal. Thus the daily driver can still be had. How much money do you want to spend?

Injectors are easy. based on hp you want out of the car. determines what size you want. 450's can be had relatively cheap. with the 500s you probably will max those out though...

Pump ~ walboro or a denso seem to be pretty much the norm until you hit crazy hp levels. both flow more than stock. have you hotwired your pump? I'm assuming so to get 13 PSI from DR500s...

Fuel management. This is the fun one. Lots of experience around here with the ARC. Seems to be pretty easy to use. SAFC is another choice, a little more complex set up. You also left out the E-manage, which will also give you timing control. (really opens up the world of "bigger than necassary injectors" that still work) This also scares a few people away. lots of stuff to play with and gives you three dimensions of controls to blow up your car with.

You also left out big wing, tinted windows and spinner rims.

Loud blow off valve... closed loop, right???

Personal opinion, toss the narrow band, get a logger to read the stock O2 sensors. Get an EGT gauge or a wideband to fill your now empty slot.

_________________
Bad decisions make good stories.
Look at it! LOOK AT MY @SS AND TELL ME IT'S PRETTY!

Next thing you should get is a fuel pump, rewire, and fuel filter (if it wasn't done with the 120K). I'd also borrow a logger from a near-by 3/Ser and find out for sure it's okay to run those dr500's at those boost levels. I wouldn't be surpized if your fuel system is beyond maxed. I know the blinky gauge says it's fine, but trust me, it's not as accurate as you think.

Then look into a downpipe, test pipe, and gut the precats.

_________________
06 Blue EVO 9

I assumed he had exhaust upgrades already...?

I would also be suprised to see 13 psi on DR500s. Thought it should be more around 10~11 safely. They should be throwing cooler air than the 9beasts which should require more fuel. My car gets finicky with 14PSI on stock turbos/stock fuel... of course there also putting out more hot air than my X-girlfriend.

_________________
Bad decisions make good stories.
Look at it! LOOK AT MY @SS AND TELL ME IT'S PRETTY!

The cats have been gutted and a test pipe added with a down pipe.I am a complete novice when it comes to fuel injectors and related fuel system componets.I bought that af gauge from 3sx and you would have thought they could have steered my towards a wide band.I also called DR and they said that not to go over 14# of boost with the stock set up.So with that info I set it at 13#.The bov is only connected to the y-pipe (open loop?)she doesn't die or miss and runs 18 to 20 inches of vacum at idle.Now as far as money goes, the car is a summer toy so I'll spend what it takes to do it right.
Heres what I was thinking 450's then the best and easiest fuel controller to use. Walbro pump or Denso which ever one is quieter.
So what is the best fuel controller?
Pump?
And someone that knows how to tune it and teach me .
THANKS FOR YOUR HELP EVERYONE JOE

Which pump? Pumps are measured in liters/hour so we need to do some math. Now, you want to run 450 DSM injectors. Okay, so 450cc/min = 27liters/hour x6 (because there are 6 injectors) = 162 lph. A good rule of thumb is to get a pump that will flow 20% more fuel than you need, So you need a pump that will flow at least 195lph

Check out this link: http://www.roadraceengineering.com/fuel ... wrates.htm

Note: In order to get 12.5 volts to the pump (the amount a pump will flow is based on how much voltage gets to it) you must have a rewire. In order to get 14 volts, you need a boost-a-pump. Stock, only about 8-10volts makes it to the pump, hence the need for a rewire.

Only Denso makes a direct "drop-in" replacement for the stock pump (a 50-mm diameter pump made by Denso). The Bosch, Nissan, and Walbro pumps require modifications to the fuel pump assembly. The denso is also quieter than the Walbro. The Walbro whine isn't that bad though.

Whenever someone says they have the "best" a/f controler, it's usually just their opinion. The truth is, they all work, it's just a matter of personal preferance. I think you should spend some time on the boards reading about peoples experiences with all the different controlers out there for our cars. Participate in the gatherings and ask questions. You'll find I blab about this stuff all the time. I've used the MAFT, VPC, AFC, AFR, ARC, and Utec and out of all of them, the ARC was the easiest to use.

I'm a full supporter of Matt & Justin from DR (they built my car), but if I were in your shoes, I'd first start with a logger so you can see something called Injector Duty Cycle and knock. Knock, quite simply is what puts holes in your pistons. IDCs tell you where you're limits are with fuel.

You want IDC to be less than 100 (close to 80% is best) and no knock. I wouldn't be surpised if your IDC's are past 100 which is bad because above 100, you're running the injectors past the point where the FP can keep up.

A logger is also nice for when you do finally get an A/F controler of some kind and can view the ECU's Fuel Trims. These are nice because they tell you which direction (rich or lean) to tune towards. A wideband will also do the same thing.

Not even going to get into open loop -vs- closed loop BOVs.

_________________
06 Blue EVO 9

Gregs covered it. Lean is bad. Get a logger. you'll need it to tune in an fuel controller anyway.

450s are easily obtainable from DSM forums. They come in two varieties that I know of. Balck top and Blue top. Back in the day (about two weeks ago ) Greg explained the difference to me. the Black tops have a pintle which directs the flow at the valves, where as the blue top just sprays it out like any other normal injector. while your there pick up a set of DSM intercoolers for cheap. take them to an aluminum welder, or send them into a guy on 3si and for a few hundred dollars you can have better intercoolers that will fight off knock.

The ARC seems to be fairly widely used around here, and seems to be the choice if you want to get help/ talk about settings / swap parts / make fun of people who don't have ARC. (ok, maybe not the last one, but it was fun to throw it in there. )

Get a Denso. there, that was easy. maybe an adjustable fuel pressure regulator, but that's not neccesary. or you'll find out quickly if it is.



Yes, open loop. What type?



Maw hah ha. I will. I had my greddy type-S in closed loop. except I only got the Japanese instructions. So I followed the diagram the best I could. turns out one of the nipples off the side was still dumping to atmosphere. This was just an unplugged nipple, not even the whole BOV. The car never died on my, or gave me extreme amounts of hesitation, but the back of my car was perpetually covered in black soot from running so damned rich.

It will idle fine. The difference you will see is running extremely rich between shifts. not that big of a deal, just something to be aware of. Especially if your going to post one of the threads about how you were busting rear down a street, came to a stop and your car died on you and your trying to figure out why, or it's hesitating/ bucking in between shifts. I believe people will also tell you closed loop helps the turbos spool faster.

kk, have fun.

_________________
Bad decisions make good stories.
Look at it! LOOK AT MY @SS AND TELL ME IT'S PRETTY!

Thanks for the info, now I have an idea on what to buy.I'll be shopping for a denso pump,arc, injectors and a logger.
My bov is a turbo xs type h-rfl and that explains why the back of my white car is always full of soot.I'll have to change that after I get the other parts.
I turn the boost down to 10# just to be sure it will last long enough to blow it up the right way .It sure won't be first or last one that have or will make go boom.

I think I'll be in Jefferson this saturday for the car show and maybe someone down there can give me a look at how this stuff works.(arc and or)
Joe

..

*points at Jeff's VPC and laughs*

_________________
06 Blue EVO 9

Jeff,

I am waiting for my pressure sensor and ignition harness to come in and I will be using an E-manage. (I have the main unit and the injector harness already) I want to be able to play with timing to really blow my engine. Otherwise I would help you out... unless the price is right So, I also get pointed to and laughed at. (usually not the emanage's fault though... )

I just got my 550 injectors back from crusinperformance. They were used (badly ) before I sent them... not anymore. they look brand spanking new. Rich did an awesome job that I cannot say enough good things about. If you get used injectors (450s or whatever) do yourself a favor and have them flowtested and rebuilt. 81 dollars later I have perfect injectors and the peice of mind that they have perfect spray pattern and flow even across the board.

_________________
Bad decisions make good stories.
Look at it! LOOK AT MY @SS AND TELL ME IT'S PRETTY!