... who did some work to his 93 VR4 and now it runs like it has a dead cylinder. He installed new plugs, 99 lifters and the proper sized injectors (360cc).

He doesn't know if it's a spark plug, wire, injector or what is bad. His question is can datalogging inform him if it is an injector or plug and tell which one it is. I have a datalogging setup but as ver fer will attest, I do not know much about using it. If this would help, it would be much better than guessing and removing the plenum on and off to try different things.

Would datalogging help him? I mentioned vacuum leaks and the like, and maybe even forgetting to plug in the MAS. I'm sure you can offer more.

Thanks,

SJ

_________________


Racing is life. Everything else is just waiting.

http://umg.mn3s.org

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Don't lie. You don't have any friends.

It could be as simple as a spark plug boot not pushed on far enough on either end.

I know the hybrid loggers have a program that will let you shut off the injector to one cylinder. that will at least tell you the cylinder your having problems with, but that was only on shiver's logger, and I don't know if yours is programed the same way.

Another way to find out which cylinder it is, (with out a logger) would be to remove one spark plug wire at a time from the coils. when you pull one, and the engine runs the same, you have found your culprit.

why do you say "proper sized" injectors? Did he come from having larger injectors in there...? Does he have a fuel controller messing with something...?

_________________
Bad decisions make good stories.
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Yes he did. No, that was removed AFAIK.

I'll pass this on to him Adam, thanks.

SJ

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Racing is life. Everything else is just waiting.

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SJ - Thanks for posting this. I am the friend, if SJ is kind enough to call me that. The car came from Texas, by way of New York/ New Jersey. It has or had many strange things including non-turbo injectors with the fuel pressure raised to 92 psi to compensate. The car was worked on at turbo trix in New Jersey and I don't know the reason for some of the things that were done, and what was done in Texas and what was done out east. Anyway, you know the recent story. I brought up to SJ the datalogger question because of the fuel injector cutout option I read about. I have a logger setup but don't know the first thing about how it works. That's why I talked to SJ. I believe I can pull the injector wires off of the front three cylinders to check if any of those are dead and try the wires off the coil for the rear three. I thought maybe a datalogger might show if an injector wasn't working and which one it might be but I don't know enough about these cars yet to know. I guess I will be learning since I have two VR4's and both of them need things done on them. I don't believe it is a vacuum leak problem because it still has the same dead cylinder sound when I rev the engine and from my past experience with drag racing the effect of a large vacuum leak diminishes when you raise the rpm. Thanks for any help. If I get one of these beasts running well enough I will meet some of you at the UMG in May.
Thanks, Scott

No prob's Scott. We'll help you get them both to the UMG if we can.

Would you like a few of us to come over and take a look? Greg is the one with the long commute...

For those that aren't aware, Scott was a pro drag racer. Much knowledge in his mellon. And, he's a cool guy too.

Heck, love to see your son's car as well!

Let us know.

SJ

_________________


Racing is life. Everything else is just waiting.

http://umg.mn3s.org

http://ummo.boards.net

Scott,
Anyone with a datalogger with the MMCd program loaded should be able to help you. I also have a 93 VR4 and picked up a logger setup. It will allow you to check each injector to see which cylinder might be the problem. You can see the datalogger screen shot here.

http://mmcdlogger.sourceforge.net/#Features

I bought my logger as a kit and got ripped off. Every thing was supposed to be loaded and be just plug and play. I got the el' cheapo logger cable with the spade connectors (They work but suck). Wires keep wanting to come off.

If you want a data logger setup buy the good logger cable on ebay with the instant on feature.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Datalogg ... dZViewItem


Buy a Palm M100 for less than $10 on eaby. Make sure it come with a hot sync cable to connect to your computer. Get a hot sync cable instead of the hot sync cradle because it easier to use in your car.

Now all you need to do is download the MMCd program and load it on your palm and your ready to log. You can do some logs and save them. In order to read the logger files on your computer you will need the MMCd tools program to convert the log file to excel.

I hope this helps. If you need any help on how to get it hooked up and working let me know. As far as reading all the information in the logs....well thats a job for G-ELL

Bunk

_________________
93 3000 GT VR4

And that's why we call him the Mad Scientist.

SJ

_________________


Racing is life. Everything else is just waiting.

http://umg.mn3s.org

http://ummo.boards.net

Your right he is the mad scientist. I had to learn the hard way how to get the data logger loaded, hooked up and working. I then had the Mad Scientist give me a really fast lesson on how to use it at the Green Bay gathering. I learned so much so is such short period of time. So now I can log and do all that stuff but reading the logs and knowing what it all means is still the job of Greg!!!

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93 3000 GT VR4

wall of text hurts my eyes.



well, 92 psi fuel pressure... right...

that's the reason I asked if it had a fuel controller. if it was unhooked by the same guys that ran 92 psi fuel pressure, then you will most likely want to check over the wiring and removal... that may be a large part of your problem.

what kind/condition injectors did you stick back in there... did you get them tested? cruisinperformance tests injectors fairly cheap, and cleans and refurbishes them. he will also send you a print out to make sure that they are within 1% flow of each other. That will tell you exactly what is going on with the injectors for 12 bucks an injector. (that's the price from when I sent mine in.)

Other culprits, what type of spark plug wires did you use? sometimes the ones from autozone/local parts store really kinda suck... The MSD wires run well, and can be gotten from the specialty 3/S internet shops cheaper than just about ANY other wire out there. even stock and local parts store junk.

also, what plugs... for 10 bucks worth of copper plugs it's an easy way to rule out spark problems from that end. but you will prolly have to special order the coppers because they usually only carry the platinum/iriduim for our cars, but they don't self clean as well as the coppers, which leads to fouling problems. Even a torch won't clean them up sometimes.

after that I'm out of quick check/cheaper solutions without staring at the car in front of me...

where are you located again?

oh, and I'm out of state for the next week, so good luck.

_________________
Bad decisions make good stories.
Look at it! LOOK AT MY @SS AND TELL ME IT'S PRETTY!

Thanks for the help.

Unfortunately I believe I found the problem. After pulling wires out of the coil I was happy to find the front right cylinder to be dead. I thought plug or injector. After changing both, one at a time no change. Next step, pull valve cover. I found intake rocker off to the side. When my son and I changed lifters this winter we must have not installed this one properly. Placed rocker in position. Cylinder still dead. Result must be a bent valve.

Major depression in my son, he looked so forward to driving the car this spring after a year and a half doing the body. With my time constaints and my son's heavy soccer schedule it doesn't look like the year of the VR4 for us.

Thanks for the help and hope to meet some of you and see the w3si cars some time this year.

DOH!

Oh well, at least it's the front head. It's not too hard to pull with the engine in the car.

Remove the timing belt, thermostat housing, coil pack, PTU, radiator, turbo heat shields, upper & lower intake plenum, and undo the 3 exhaust manifold bolts (leave the turbo attached to the block & pull the head with the exhaust manifold attached).

Buy new valves & guides from one of our dealerships that offer discounts, take the head to your local machine shop, $75 later, you should be good.

_________________
06 Blue EVO 9

I cleared a similar problem witha Reatta recently, by going "Old School" with my 1977 chrome-plated magnetic pickup timing light. The car showed no codes, but ran rough for only 80k miles. I used the timing light to check each wire near coilpacks, and near plugs, good spark everywhere, so I replaced plugs, and off we went.

2 weeks late, same problem, tried same diag process, and found one bad coilpack, not shown in codes. Replaced it, ad no more trouble since. If it comes up again, I may start looking at the ICM, which the coils are mounted to/controlled by, since this won't give a code, either.

Double-check the coils, you may get lucky. I know you already replaced wires & plugs, use a timing light to verify spark from coil end of wires.

_________________
Auto collector/restorer one man show
over 20 projects in line, AMC, Buick, Chevys, Corvette, Datsun, Dodge, Durant, Eagle, Ford, Honda, IH, Jeep, Nissan, Oldsmobile, Porsche, Reatta, S'Cool Bus, 1950's Trucks

If you need help dealing with this, let me know. It's not catastrophic, and should not prevent you from using the car this summer...

I believe you have my number, but if not, please ask.




If you do it yourself, just take your time, consider using the service manual as a resource - and then ENJOY when it is finished.

A quick pressure test on that cylinder should tell you if the valve is bent. It might just test good and you realize that it could be a coilpack that you think is good but isn't.

_________________
93 3000 GT VR4

Did a compression check Sunday afternoon and all three front cylinders were between 135-140. Massive confusion, #1 still dead.

Pulled wire off plug and put a plug in the wire and spark jumped easily from plug to ground. Obviously good spark.

I decided to put injector I switched back into a different cylinder and pull out the small one I tried and move the one I switched to cylinder one. Car started and ran fine??? I had the plug on and off of the injectors many times with no change then swapping injectors from one cylinder to the other and now it runs fine?

So I still don't know what was the actual problem but at least it made me find the rocker that was off the lifter.

Now to look at idle that is 1800 rpm, I assume from changing to injectors a 140cc larger than before. I couldn't find any vacuum leaks to account for the high idle.

Thanks for everyones help.