I think it comes out that cold if you would just crack the valve on the tank open but once it runs through the regulator (I think most people I've hear of are running around 80 psi) the pressure drop is less and therefor not as cold.
With the W/I you will run rich because of more fuel and less air. The air charge may be cooler by is now being displaced by the water and alchy.

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'94 vr4- Now with extra slowness

I thought that it was a temp well below ambiaent(sp?) temperature. Your right, I have not had the chance to check if that is at the bottle neck, or the hobbs at the y-pipe. I'm not sure of anyone else who runs propane, but Detpac liked it alot. Not sure what he used to tune...

So I talked to my uncle about this today when I stopped out by his shop and he thinks that we are all insane. first for trying to get hp out of three liters, and second for trying to run 25psi...

He does not understand why you would run a water/alcohol mix. when his meth gets diluted by three percent he tosses it. He has a problem with running water, as if your spraying alcohol into the y-pipe it will cool anyway, why not just run complete alcohol. it's 2 bucks a gallon. why pay more for prestone?

He also said that running alcohol injection on a warm humid day will result in the y-pipe, throttle body, and runners sweating unbelievably bad. not a really big deal, unless everything you have under your hood is chromed and polished. wheew. Glad that's not anyone we know... oh wait. damn. He said that he has had engines with puddles under them on the floor.

He said that he would also be concerned about washing the cylinder walls off with the water/meth mix, but admitted that he does not have much experience with the mix. I have heard on the same GN sites that I originally researched about how on engine tear downs all the parts looked like they had been "steam cleaned" now, they also said that the cylinder walls showed no extra damage, but I could see it go both ways...

450 for a barrel of VP C-16. 8 bucks a gallon... hmmmm... He also questions the need for C-16. he thinks that you should try 100, 110, and so forth up to the C-16, which is actually like 120 octane or something right? If your running to much octane your slowing the firewall in the cylinder down and it's actually costing you power.(though proably not much) you want just enough octane so that you don't see knock.

He also wanted to sell a barrel of the Rocket Fuel. He said they have some neat stuff too.

while we're on the subject of fuel...

I went down to jesse's the other day. 31 mpg on the way down. that's after buzzing around town for a bit before I left. Get to Jesse's house. almost out of gas. Have to fill up by Jesse. 10% ethonal piss water. boo that.

on the way back I got 28 mpg. this is averaged in with the 31 on the way there, also, so it was actually more like 26~25 mpg.

Got up this morning to do the daily grind thing... got home, and looked. I averaged 24 mpg where I usually average 28.5

I hate ethanol pee water. I feel sorry for you guys running it in your stealths. that's another reason to run race gas right there.

I would be highly suspisious of that stuff. It must burn leaner too...

_________________
Bad decisions make good stories.
Look at it! LOOK AT MY @SS AND TELL ME IT'S PRETTY!

So what's the deal about this rocket fuel. A search on 3si turns up nothing. Octane? leaded/unleaded? Price? Benefits over c16 race fuel?

I think your uncle is a big block v8 guy and doesn't quite follow the import scene so he's probably not quite aware of v6 twin turbo engines and what works and what doesn't. All the big boys on 3SI are now running c16. Trevor, Matt Monnet, IPO, AdamVR4, RussianVR4, and even local guys like Matt Clinton (who likes it so much, he's a dealer for VP Racing Fuels, Mark Wendlant, and Matt Jannusch. Obviously running higher octane than you NEED isn't a good thing and can rob you of power, but my car on a 20+psi tune should put down over 500 AWHP with my setup which is some serious power imho. Whether I want to run that on the street is another story. I may opt for a lower octane VP fuel like StreetBlaze 103 which is unleaded on the street. And just keep a small supply of c16 around for the track.

Not sure yet what I want to do. There are SO many options here. I don't think there's a wrong decision, other than having to deal with this crappy 93 octane 10% ethanol mix I've been using.

I contacted VP Racing Fuels to see a list of dealers in WI so I can find the best price around. We'll see. So far I think Matt Clinton had the best price for me from his quote yesterday. I'll have to ask him about the unleaded blend and get his feedback on it.

Jesse

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Best in Show - NG07
2010 - 6G74/3.5L E16Gs - 688awhp/679awtq (Race+Meth)
2011 - 6G74/3.5L 68HTAs - 740awhp/762awtq (Race+Meth)
2013 - 6G74/3.5L MTC Stage4 - 908awhp/832awtq (Race+Meth)

Adam,
What price can you get me on Rocket brand 100 unleaded fuel per gallon? 55 gallon drum? Been doing a little more research on Rocket brand (formerly 76) and it seems like a decent upgrade and relatively cheap. Not much more than 93 pump gas.

I may opt for running that on the street, and c16 on the track. I'm planning on buying 5 gallons of Rocket fuel locally to test it out and see how the car reacts to it.

Shoot me a PM with price and such.

Jesse

Rocket fuel is made from two or three guys that broke away from VP (or somewhere that did race fuel). If you have ever looked at a VP broucher you'll understand that these guys mean business. The problem for me is they have about 16 different types of fuel, from pro drag fuel to moto-cross. And there descriptions help, but sometimes cross over each other alot. To me it's a bt confusing. They also insist on doing there octane rating different than every one else. motor method or calculated method, I don't really care, nor am I saying that one is a better way to qualify fuel. The point is every one in the industry does it by using both, adding an dividing by 2. this is not hard. freakin' conform. KISS. Keep it simple stupid.

So anyway. Rocket Fuel comes in (I believe off the top of my head) 4 or 5 varietys. 100, 105, 110, 120, and pro drag. all octane done the normal way. no B.S. about small displacement vs. large displacement vs. turbo vs. nitrous vs. red paint on your car vs. blue paint on your car. I'm personally gonna try both, but only cause I have a good source. Once I've run both I'll be glad to give you guys a report. I'll even try to grab some borchures...

I don't know why it didn't come up in a search. they have a cute little brochure just like VP with a cartoon rocket and the different octane levels... hmmmm...

My uncle is not the editor of turbo magizine, or a honda fanatic. I'll give you that one. He is also a big block guy. I was staring at an 8 sec TA the other day... wish I had a digital camera... I know for a fact that he used to run a straight methonal injection engine. both him and my dad started at the same time and wrecked many a 400 small block chev and a big block ford before they figured it out.

I am NOT going to call him for adivce on tuning my e-manage. He'd look at me like I fell off the back of the turnip truck. Talking about fuels, and what makes a car fast is more or less universal. These V-6's are still internal combustion engines. they have to follow similar rules.

that being said I am not trying to steer you towards or away from one brand or octane rating of racing gas. or tell you m/w injection won't work or isn't your best option. I'm just trying to bring you the most info possible before you make your decision. because like mouse ( ) said, you are infinitely corruptable. With more knowledge you can make a more informed decision.

I think you need to search more than just 3si. I consider it a very good source of info, but not the end all be all of how to make a stealth fast. Just post a new modification on 3si. I don't care if it's so good it drops 1/2 second off your quarter mile time, makes your car corner better, saves you gas and prolongs the life of the engine. Some one or multiple people will be flaming you for not trodding down the beaten path. some will call you jesus, and in two days your thread will be locked.

Boo that. I'm wanna go single once I outgrow the 500s. I wanna try a few things. you can bet that if I do 3si isn't going to hear about it until I have my flame suit on, and securely in place.

_________________
Bad decisions make good stories.
Look at it! LOOK AT MY @SS AND TELL ME IT'S PRETTY!

_________________

Best in Show - NG07
2010 - 6G74/3.5L E16Gs - 688awhp/679awtq (Race+Meth)
2011 - 6G74/3.5L 68HTAs - 740awhp/762awtq (Race+Meth)
2013 - 6G74/3.5L MTC Stage4 - 908awhp/832awtq (Race+Meth)

from what I've read you lean it out when the knock det. is added due to there being more fuel total.

you are trying to get the same volume of fuel in the chamber, just a higher octane mixture allowing for more boost. you lean your fuel controller out to compensate for the adding of the knock det.

This is what I've gathered from Trevor's post on tuning his alki kit with the map ecu.

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You would want to lean out the a/f but by leaning out on the ARC to much will increase timing. You could also play with FP also to keep afr were you want it.
Meth is cool the one of the guys from Extreme Motorsports in Greenville fired his alchy ford coupe for me once, ran it for about 30 sec and the blower housing had frost on it.

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'94 vr4- Now with extra slowness

What a headache though. You'd need to retune (almost from scratch) everytime you tweak the pressure.

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06 Blue EVO 9